Home    |     PE Team    |     Contributors    |     About peHUB    |     Reuters Private Equity    |         Log In    


Bill Burnham

The Tax Man Cometh: Carried Interest, Risk, Fees, and Taxes

Posted on: June 21st, 2007

This is the first in a series of Vox Populi posts on the carried interest taxation issue. It first appeared on Bill’s blog.  

So there’s a move afoot by some within Congress to tax all carried interest as ordinary income instead of capital gains. In case you aren’t familiar with the term, carried interest is the share of profits that the general partner within a limited partnership receives. Traditionally, all of the profits generated by a partnership have been treated as capital gains so long as the investments that generated the profits have been held at least a year. This means that general partners in VC, Private Equity, or Hedge funds (funds which typically are structured with a carried interest) not only get highly leveraged returns on their own investments, but that any profits produced get very favorable tax treatment (15% vs. 35%).

A Bad Way To Deal With An Admitted Problem
Originally I was going to write a post about how this idea would require a complete rewrite of the tax code and how at its heart it’s a Marxist attack on capitalism, but I figure that A) it would be seen as entirely self serving (which to some degree it is) B) I don’t think it’s going to happen as currently envisioned given how many feet the government has to step on to make this change happen.

However the more I thought about it, I think it should honestly be said that the proponents of such measures have a few decent points which I think that the entire investment community, in an honest moment of reflection, should probably admit as valid.

Before I do so, let me first state that it would be crazy (and highly impractical/improbable) for the government to enact a blanket change to the tax treatment of the profits generated by the General Partner in a Limited Partnership. Limited partnerships exist for a very good reason: they are an efficient vehicle for making highly productive capital investments that generate future economic growth and tax revenue. This growth effect is why Limited Partnership investments and most other forms of capital investment, very sensibly, get favored tax treatment. In a country with a negative savings rate, we need to do all we can to spur investment. In addition, while the General Partner’s clearly get great leverage on their investment (usually 20/1 sometimes even 50/1), they are not just risking their own capital, but they are making a substantial investment of “sweat equity” which the limited partners obviously feel is very valuable.

If general partner’s are prepared to take the risk of a 100% loss on not just their money but also their “sweat equity”, there’s really no reason in a capitalist society why their investment shouldn’t be treated like any other capital investment.

Risk Based Investing Without The Risk
That said, as fund sizes have exploded in the last 5 to 10 years, the level of risk that the General Partner is really taking has arguably declined dramatically because the fee income for many funds has become so huge that many of the general partner’s will make a ton of money even if their fund is a total disaster.  After all, it’s hard to claim you are risking a lot of “sweat equity” when you are driving around in an air conditioned Bentley.

For example, in the VC industry if you go back to 1990, according to the NVCA the average firm size was $82M and they had an average of just over 10 “principals” at the firm (10.2 to be precise). With a 2% management fee, that pencils out to about $164K in management fee revenue per principal, and that’s before all operating expenses. With fund sizes this small, the general partners were clearly not living high on the hog when it came to management fees. In fact, if the funds didn’t make a decent profit it would be safe to say that the opportunity costs for most of the partners at the funds would have far outweighed any fund returns.

By 2002, the average firm size had risen to $284M, but the average principals per fund had actually dropped to 9.5. Five years later I don’t know what the exact figures are, but my guess is that the average is now above $300M and the number of principals has either stayed constant or gone down, but average management fee is now probably closer to 2.5%. What that means is that at the average firm now generates $789K/year in management fees per principal and many of the top firms (ones in the so-called 3/30 club) have funds under management of well in excess of $1BN, 3% management fees and just 5-10 full partners. Such funds can and do pay their partners $2-$3M a year before the investors get a single penny back. Many of these funds also pay the capital contributions of their partners out of management fees meaning that the individual partner’s never even have to write a check into the fund.

Under these circumstances it’s not hard to see how venture capital has become a fairly riskless proposition for many GPs and that it’s pretty hard to argue folks are investing a lot of sweat equity when they are pulling down at least a million dollars a year for getting out of bed in the morning. Put another way, in a 3/30 $1BN fund, the general partner only has to put up $10M but in return is guaranteed to get at least $150M in fees over just the next 5 years. With numbers like that, it’s hard to argue that the partner’s are really taking any risk at all and if they aren’t taking any risk then why in the world should they get any favorable tax treatment for their “sweat” equity since they clearly aren’t sweating the risk of a loss. If they do lose their share of the $10M they can just fly in their private jet to their beach house Maui to console themselves. The situation is even more pronounced in the private equity world where fund sizes are now racing past $10BN. At this level, the compensation for partners at many private equity fund’s makes VCs look downright parsimonious.

So while I agree with and strenuously defend the principle of affording capital gains treatment to those general partners that are willing to take the risk of investing their own cash and sweat equity to produce returns, I think the reality is that in a large number of institutional funds today (be they VC, Private Equity or Hedge Funds), the principals are really not risking much if anything and are pretty handsomely compensated for the time and energy they spend on their portfolio investments.

A Modest Proposal
All that said, the solution that government is proposing is, as usual, terribly misguided.  Taxing all income to general partners as ordinary income is a sure way to A) unfairly penalize those limited partnerships where the general partner really is taking a significant risk and investing a lot of sweat equity (which usually are small business partnerships focused on things such as restaurants and apartment buildings) B) reduce the overall level of private investment C) hurt the businesses that depend on this investment capital for growth. While I think that a blanket change in the tax treatment is bound to have these negative effects, there are some other changes Congress can make which insure that general partners really are taking real risk and investing real sweat equity to help growth the economy such as:

  1. For tax purposes, reduce the general partner’s tax basis by the amount of after-tax management fees it pays out to its members. In other words, if an individual partner invests $1M in the fund, but gets a salary from the fund that generates an after tax income of $1M, then that individual’s basis should be reduced to zero, which effectively means they invested nothing and should therefore have to pay ordinary income taxes.
  2. Raise the % of the fund that the general partner needs to contribute to qualify before it qualifies for capital gains treatment from 1% to 5%.  This makes the level of risk for the general partner a lot more meaningful. One major drawback of this approach though is that general partner’s without a lot of cash will be hard pressed to meet stiffer capital requirement and this might unfairly advantage old rich firms over new upcoming ones.
  3. Some Combination of 1 and 2.

These changes increase the level of risk and neutralize the risk reducing effects of copious management fees. Firms can still choose to pay their partners a ton of money, but if they do those people will lose favorable tax treatment on their investments unless they are willing to invest a lot more cash. This kind of dynamic tension between current income and capital investment risk is exactly what LPs face, so why shouldn’t GPs face the same trade-off?These changes increase the level of risk and neutralize the risk reducing effects of copious management fees. Firms can still choose to pay their partners a ton of money, but if they do those people will lose favorable tax treatment on their investments unless they are willing to invest a lot more cash. This kind of dynamic tension between current income and capital investment risk is exactly what LPs face, so why shouldn’t GPs face the same trade-off?

It’s All About the Benjamins
Of course, the real agenda in Congress is not fixing the limited partnership incentive structure, but finding an easy way to raise several billion in additional tax dollars, so I really don’t think the Congressmen care that their proposals are likely to backfire and are logically inconsistent with both capitalism and the fundamental philosophy behind our tax code; they are just trying to make a quick buck by alienating a few as people as possible while wrapping the whole exercise in some media-friendly populist pandering. 

These changes increase the level of risk and neutralize the risk reducing effects of copious management fees. Firms can still choose to pay their partners a ton of money, but if they do those people will lose favorable tax treatment on their investments unless they are willing to invest a lot more cash. This kind of dynamic tension between current income and capital investment risk is exactly what LPs face, so why shouldn’t GPs face the same trade-off?Of course, the real agenda in Congress is not fixing the limited partnership incentive structure, but finding an easy way to raise several billion in additional tax dollars, so I really don’t think the Congressmen care that their proposals are likely to backfire and are logically inconsistent with both capitalism and the fundamental philosophy behind our tax code; they are just trying to make a quick buck by alienating a few as people as possible while wrapping the whole exercise in some media-friendly populist pandering. Might be good politics, but it’s bad policy.




71 Responses to “The Tax Man Cometh: Carried Interest, Risk, Fees, and Taxes”

  1. gwen stefani mp3 Says:

    Good site. Thanks:-)
    http://student.santarosa.edu/~zmax/gwen-stefani/index.html gwen stefani

  2. john cena music Says:

    Good site. Thank you!!!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/catalogs/john-cena/ john cena rap

  3. cheap viagra Says:

    Very good site. Thank you!
    http://www.bloggerblast.com/cheapviagra viagra

  4. viagra Says:

    Good site. Thank you!
    http://www.bloggerblast.com/orderviagrausa order viagra

  5. viagra without prescription Says:

    Cool site. Thanks:-)
    http://www.bloggerblast.com/onlineviagrarx viagra without prescription

  6. debt consolidation loans Says:

    Cool site. Thank you!
    http://geomapnw.ess.washington.edu/newsletter/themes/shared/js/xinha/functions/loan3.htm title loan

  7. soma financial Says:

    Cool site. Thanks:-)
    http://geomapnw.ess.washington.edu/newsletter/themes/shared/js/xinha/functions/soma.htm purchase soma online

  8. buy viagra Says:

    Good site. Thanks!!!
    http://fdaviagra.moy.su/index.html buy viagra

  9. fergie Says:

    Nice site. Thank you:-)
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/fergie fergie ringtones

  10. rihanna Says:

    Cool site. Thanks:-)
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/rihanna rihanna

  11. student loans with bad credit Says:

    Nice site. Thanks!!!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/loans student loans with bad credit

  12. nickelback Says:

    Very good site. Thank you!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/nickelback nickelback

  13. personal loans bad credit Says:

    Cool site. Thank you:-)
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/bad-credit-personal-loans personal loans bad credit

  14. bad credit unsecured personal loans Says:

    Very good site. Thanks.
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/bad-credit bad credit unsecured personal loans

  15. personal loans for bad credit Says:

    Nice site. Thank you!!!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/bad-credit-loan loans for bad credit

  16. bad credit car loans Says:

    Cool site. Thanks:-)
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/bad-credit-car-loans bad credit car loans

  17. tramadol Says:

    Very good site. Thanks.
    http://tramadolnow1.forum24.se tramadol

  18. phentermine Says:

    Good site. Thanks!!!
    http://phentermine1.forum24.se phentermine

  19. craigslist Says:

    Nice site. Thanks!
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/craigslist/index.html craigslist sacramento

  20. home mortgage refinance loan Says:

    Nice site. Thank you.
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/refinance/index.html home mortgage refinance loan

  21. best refinance home mortgage loan rate Says:

    Nice site. Thanks.
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/mortgage refinance mortgage loan home rate

  22. delta airlines Says:

    Cool site. Thanks!
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/delta/ delta airlines

  23. free credit report score Says:

    Very good site. Thank you!
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/credit/ free credit scores

  24. home loan lending Says:

    Cool site. Thank you!!!
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/lending/ home loan lending

  25. rolex Says:

    Good site. Thank you:-)
    http://hometown.aol.com/maraa242/rolex/ rolex

  26. federal student loan consolidation Says:

    Cool site. Thanks.
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/top101/consolidation/ federal student loan consolidation

  27. alltel ringtones Says:

    Good site. Thanks!!!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/top101/alltel free alltel ringtones

  28. faxless payday loans Says:

    Cool site. Thank you!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/top101/faxless faxless payday loans

  29. porno Says:

    Very good site. Thanks!
    http://phentermine-no-prescription-loqo.blogspot.com/ porno

  30. porno Says:

    Good site. Thank you:-)
    http://homeloanswithbadcredit.blogspot.com/ porno

  31. auto bad credit loan refinance Says:

    Cool site. Thanks!!!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/10top/refinance/index.html bad credit auto loan refinance

  32. bad credit refinance auto loans Says:

    Nice site. Thanks:-)
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/10top/auto/index.html auto loans bad credit

  33. refinance mortgage rates Says:

    Cool site. Thanks!
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/10top/mortgage/index.html mortgage refinance rates

  34. christian debt consolidation Says:

    Nice site. Thank you:-)
    http://hometown.aol.com/ipplaget/christ/index.html christian debt consolidation

  35. mobile ringtones Says:

    Very good site. Thank you.
    http://www.angel-owners.de/functions/ringtone1.htm ring tone

  36. cheap airline tickets Says:

    Very good site. Thank you:-)
    http://talkingtechs.com/functions/air-ticket.htm air ticket china

  37. ultram 100mg Says:

    Cool site. Thanks!!!
    http://talkingtechs.com/functions/ultram.htm tramadol ultram

  38. brother sister sex Says:

    Cool site. Thank you:-)
    http://www.bloggerblast.com/gaysexboys brother sister sex

  39. free credit counseling Says:

    Very good site. Thank you.
    http://online-credit-counseling-free.blogspot.com/ free credit counseling

  40. buy phentermine online Says:

    Nice site. Thank you:-)
    http://buyphentermineonline-tod.blogspot.com/ buy phentermine online

  41. student loans with bad credit Says:

    Cool site. Thank you.
    http://www12.asphost4free.com/bestone/loans student loans with bad credit

  42. jc penney coupon Says:

    Very good site. Thanks!
    http://jc-penny.blogspot.com/ jc penney

  43. 1993 plymouth sundance Says:

    Cool site. Thanks.
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Amultisquid.com%20-1993-plymouth-sundance 1993 plymouth sundance

  44. 1998 ford mustang fuse box layout Says:

    Cool site. Thank you!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Amultisquid.com%20-1998-ford-mustang-fuse-box-layout 1998 ford mustang fuse box layout

  45. 2 download free maker movie Says:

    Good site. Thank you!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Awww.advanced-cnn-search.com%20-2-download-free-maker-movie 2 download free maker movie

  46. 2 in 1 stylus pen Says:

    Good site. Thank you:-)
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-2-in-1-stylus-pen 2 in 1 stylus pen

  47. 2003 volkswagen jetta wagon gls Says:

    Good site. Thanks:-)
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-2003-volkswagen-jetta-wagon-gls 2003 volkswagen jetta wagon gls

  48. 2006 black cat edition jaguar Says:

    Very good site. Thank you!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-2006-black-cat-edition-jaguar 2006 black cat edition jaguar

  49. 42 by nucleus poker powered remember Says:

    Nice site. Thanks:-)
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-42-by-nucleus-poker-powered-remember-42-cabinet-corner-plasma-tv-42-cal-percussion-pistols-42-camedia-master-pro-42-camera-digital-megapixel-polaroid-42-cds-plasma-hdtv-42-ceiling-fan-42-ceiling-fan-hunter-42-ceiling-fan-outdoor-42-ceiling-fans 42 by nucleus poker powered remember

  50. 8 inch portable dvd players Says:

    Cool site. Thanks:-)
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-8-inch-portable-dvd-player-8-inch-portable-dvd-player-with-tv-docking-station-8-inch-portable-dvd-players-8-inch-powered-subwoofer-8-inch-powered-tube-subwoofer-8-inch-ps2-monitor-8-inch-pyle-speaker-box-8-inch-realistic-penis-white-8-inch-recessed-lighting-trim-8-inch-ring-gear 8 inch ring gear

  51. halloween costumes Says:

    http://sexy-halloween-costumes.blogspot.com halloween costumes

  52. agressive behavior and eating peanuts Says:

    Good site. Thanks.
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-agressiv-agressive-agressive-alpine-ski-agressive-alpine-skiing-agressive-atv-mud-rim-and-tire-sets-agressive-atv-mud-tire-sets-agressive-behavior-and-eating-peanuts-agressive-colon-cleanse-agressive-controling-lying-refusal-to-communicate-mental-agressive-german-shepherds agressive atv mud tire sets

  53. halloween masks Says:

    http://halloween-masks.blogspot.com/ halloween masks

  54. bad credit student loans Says:

    http://it.geocities.com/loansstudent bad credit student loans

  55. tramadol without prescription Says:

    http://it.geocities.com/tramadol.prescription tramadol without prescription

  56. all my friends know the lowrider lyrics Says:

    Nice site. Thank you.
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-all-my-friends-are-metalheads-mp3-all-my-friends-are-mp3-all-my-friends-drive-a-low-rider-all-my-friends-drive-a-lowrider-all-my-friends-have-died-all-my-friends-have-mullets-all-my-friends-know-the-low-rider-all-my-friends-know-the-lowrider-all-my-friends-know-the-lowrider-lyrics-all-my-friends-metalheads all my friends drive a lowrider

  57. jc penney Says:

    http://jc-pennys.blogspot.com/ jc penney

  58. anti trojan shiel Says:

    Good site. Thank you!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-anti-trojan-horse-freeware-anti-trojan-horse-software-anti-trojan-scanner-anti-trojan-shiel-anti-trojan-shield-anti-trojan-shield-木馬-欄-截-anti-trojan-shild-anti-trojan-software-anti-trojan-software-for-free-anti-trojan-system anti trojan shiel

  59. brother and sister sex Says:

    http://brother-and-sister-sex.blogspot.com/ brother and sister sex

  60. phentermine without prescription Says:

    http://it.geocities.com/phentermine.prescription phentermine without prescription

  61. halloween masks Says:

    http://hometown.aol.com/maskhalloween halloween masks

  62. free porn videos Says:

    http://www12.asphost4free.com/pornfree free porn videos

  63. free porn movies Says:

    http://hometown.aol.com/fpmovies free porn movies

  64. incest Says:

    http://www12.asphost4free.com/incestporn incest

  65. jc penney Says:

    http://it.geocities.com/jcpenney.coupons jc penney

  66. cash advance Says:

    http://www12.asphost4free.com/cash4advance cash advance

  67. ballet slipper shoes Says:

    Very good site. Thanks:-)
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-ballet-slipper-pinata-ballet-slipper-sewing-ballet-slipper-shoes-ballet-slipper-shop-ballet-slipper-sizing-ballet-slipper-socks-ballet-slipper-stencil-ballet-slipper-stocking-ballet-slipper-straps-ballet-slipper-style ballet slipper stocking

  68. bike week 2004 Says:

    Nice site. Thank you!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-bike-water-bottles-bike-wear-bike-wear-gore-bike-wear-ventage-bike-wears-bike-week-bike-week-2004-bike-week-2006-daytona-fl-bike-week-2006-main-street-march-11-bike-week-and-florida-and-harley-and-daytona bike week 2004

  69. bmw f650 seat height Says:

    Nice site. Thanks!!!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-bmw-f650-luggage-bmw-f650-parts-bmw-f650-rear-brake-light-bmw-f650-seat-height-bmw-f650cs-accessories-bmw-f650gs-accessories-bmw-f650gs-accessory-bmw-f650gs-dakar-for-sale-bmw-f650gs-dakar-wind-screen-bmw-f650gs-for-sale bmw f650gs accessory

  70. british folk music web sites Says:

    Nice site. Thanks!!!
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-british-floods-british-flower-british-flower-lapel-british-flowers-british-flowers-blue-jumbo-cup-british-fly-reels-british-folk-mp3-downloads-british-folk-music-british-folk-music-web-sites-british-folk-songs-sheet-music british flowers

  71. buffer vaule Says:

    Very good site. Thanks:-)
    http://search.cnn.com/search?query=site%3Aadvanced-cnn-search.com%20-buffer-vaule-buffer-wideband-power-bandwidth-buffer-zingy-buffer-zome-buffer-zone-buffer-zone-definition-buffer-zone-protection-program-buffer-zone-security-buffer-zone-skin-protectant-buffer-zones buffer zone protection program

Leave a Reply








Venture Capitalist Accused of Blackmail Posted on: February 3rd, 2010
peHUB First Read Posted on: February 2nd, 2010
New York Shindig Photos Posted on: February 4th, 2010



Copyright © 2006-2010, Thomson Reuters. All rights reserved. | Disclaimer | Terms & Conditions | Site by Pixel Bridge